US STORIES

Below are segments from a discussion forum on the equivalent of Children's Aid in the U.S. There are some horror stories below. There must be a central North American terrorist training institute where all these would-be social workers go for mandatory training. Keep in mind that it is not a Christian discussion group.

Messages from the thread "TX breastfeeding Mom kids seized by CPS"

From: Fern5827 (fern5827@aol.com)
Newsgroups: misc.kids.breastfeeding
Date: 2000/09/14

A mom with developmentally delayed children has her children taken from her by CPS in TX. The children are said to be "too old to be breastfeeding" and neglected since they are still in diapers. These are diagnosed developmentally delayed children.

Http://www.pookiedoos.com

From: Kanga C. (kangamaroo@aol.comWA.rez.)
Date: 2000/09/15

Where CPS is involved it is not true that where there is smoke there is fire. CPS can take children for not good reason at all, and it happens far more often than it should.

From: Laura Uerling (luerling@lynx.neu.edu)
Date: 2000/09/15

"Kanga C." wrote:

Where CPS is involved it is not true that where there is smoke there is fire. CPS can take children for not good reason at all, and it happens far more often than it should.

Hmm, I'd say it probably happens more often than CPS would like to admit, but less often than anti-CPS activists (and there are some real extremists out there) would have you believe.

What was really unusual about this case is that while anti-CPS activists often complain that this country is going to hell-in-a-handbasket because parents not allowed to 'discipline' (i.e. hit) their kids anymore, the judge in this case told the parents that they *should* be spanking! The implication was that if they had been using c.p. all along they'd be potty trained, eating normally, etc. What a maroon.

Laura Uerling
luerling@lynx.neu.edu

From: Kanga C. (kangamaroo@aol.comWA.rez.)
Date: 2000/09/19

Hmm, I'd say it probably happens more often than CPS would like to admit, but less often than anti-CPS activists (and there are some real extremists out there) would have you believe.

In the homeschooling community we hear about it all too often, not from extremists, but from families who have been threatened. Since hsing is now legal in all fifty states, hotlining is the method of choice for 'punishing' hsers amongst those opposed to it.

More of my info on CPS comes from my father, a supervising social worker who hated the games he had to play to protect the children from people more concerned about the unlicensed power they held than about responsibility and the best interests of the children in their stewardship.

CPS often decides it knows better than parents _and_ doctors. Friends of ours were hotlined because they took their son off of Ritalin during the summer months, with their doctor's blessing. CPS investigated, told them they did not have the right to decide to do that, it was the state's business and not theirs.

They informed the caseworker that the doctor had agreed with them. CPS contacted the doctor - he told the family he would have to change his advice and they now had to keep him on Ritalin during the summer as well as the school year.

There's a real need for children in danger to be protected. But there's also a real need to keep CPS from abusing the families they are supposed to help.

From: Neal Feldman (silverstorm@home.net)
Date: 2000/09/19

Laura Uerling wrote:
Hmm, I'd say it probably happens more often than CPS would like to admit, but less often than anti-CPS activists (and there are some real extremists out there) would have you believe.

Sounds to me as if you are the extremist.

If you care to bother learning the truth about Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry go to http://members.home.net/silverstorm/cps.htm and its related links... if you have an open mind to the truth then you might be surprised (considering your apparently pro-Gestapo CPS attitude).

I was once like you... thinking they made some mistakes from time to time but were generally working for the good of kids and families... but the facts have conclusively proven that position to be false. Like I said, read for yourself.

Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/

We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

From: Suzanne Dallapè (karrde@smugglersalliance.org)
Date: 2000/09/19

We are possibly going to be investigated for, among other "suspicious" things, letting Rio run around outside naked, which apparently is against the law around here (thanks for telling me, City of Talyorsville!!). I guess they see it as neglect - a GOOD mother would make sure her children are properly clothed and would stop a toddler from leaving the house naked. Hey, at least I made sure he had sunscreen on, which is a lot more than most parents do! The person who called the cops on us doesn't mind that her daughter smokes while holding her baby. And *I* am the deviant one!

- S

From: Kanga C. (kangamaroo@aol.comWA.rez.)
Date: 2000/09/20

Suzanne, I don't want to be written off as an extremist, but it's _imperative_ that parents know a few things about CPS before somebody with a grudge hotlines them. Do not ever let CPS into your house, ever. They do not have the right to come in without a search warrant, whatever they tell you.

By all means, bring the children to the door so they can see they are well fed and not visibly abused, but don't let them in. If at all possible, record your interaction with them. In some states it is not necessary to get a police officer's permission to record them in the line of duty, and I think it should be the same for CPS, but I don't know if it is.

Which brings me to the next point. Get a good lawyer immediately. Ask the lawyer what he/she feels is the best way to deal with CPS. If the reply is along the lines of 'roll over and play dead,' get another lawyer. CPS is not there to help you. If CPS comes into your house, it is not to prove you innocent. It is to search for more evidence against you, and it's unbelievable what they will use as evidence.

In the case I mentioned of the family who wouldn't give their son Ritalin in the summer months, they naively let CPS in. It just happened that a supporting spar to the bunk beds had cracked the night before, so they put the mattresses on the floor until they could get to the store for the material to repair the bed. CPS wrote them up for not providing adequate sleeping arrangements. There were dishes in the sink from breakfast - just breakfast, not days and days ago, but that morning. They were written up for that.

Another hsing family we know were hotlined and they also let the social worker in. She had a modicum of common sense to season her overweening sense of power. She cleared the family, but she also told the mother that if she didn't cooperate, she could write her up for the folded basket of laundry on the couch waiting to be put away.

Do not assume you have nothing to hide. The majority of CPS workers don't have kids and don't have a clue what normal family life is like. Because there are no checks and ballances you are at the mercy of the CPS worker who comes to your house, and it could be a good one, but it might not.

I wouldn't take the chance.

Blessings,

Kanga

From: Charlotte Millington (ye037@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca)
Date: 2000/09/20

I had nightmares about having Brigitte taken from me for the first two years after she was born. I was investigated TWICE in her first three months.

The first time was when I was in the hospital *in labour*. I am a survivor of a pretty messed up family. If you can think of the abuse, it was going on in my house. I lived in a group home and a foster home off and on until I moved out. That remained in my medical record so that when I defiantly told the doctor I would not like the standard vaginal exam every hour and continuous fetal heart monitoring, they assumed it was an extension of my childhood: obviously, I did not have my unborn baby's best health in mind.

So, in my labour room, I was interviewed by a social worker. My labour did not progress well (the doctor was quite specific in threatening to not give me my baby because I might be abusive to it, so you can probably guess how trusting I felt giving birth there) and I had a c-section. Before I was discharged, the social worker came in again and grilled me on discipline issues and resources for abusive parents. Luckily, my girlfriend who was with me had a good brain on her shoulders. Right as I was about to suggest the worker and the doctor shove their charts up their f****** a**, my friend thanked them for their concerns and asked if I could have that handy-dandy list of phone numbers. That mollified them and I was allowed to leave. When I later asked my friend about it, she said: "Jump through their hoops and thank them for the opportunity to do so. Otherwise, they'll write you up for non-compliance and then you'll really have a mess to sort out."

So, three months later, when social worker number two knocked on my door and told me I had a mandatory interview thanks to the fact that I was on welfare and a single mother, I figured I could slam the door in her face (my yearning) or invite her in for tea. I smiled, grinned, answered her questions as sincerely as I could given that my smile was as fake as the little princess jewels Brigitte is wearing right now, and then thanked her for her lovely visit. Then, as soon as I waved bye-bye, I ran to the phone and called the local women's centre to find out what to do next.

Social workers are human beings, trained by people who assume that good parents exist only in fairy tales. FWIW, two Christmasses ago, my upstairs neighbor had her children remove on Christmas eve. In addition to witnessing the event, there were some very alarming parts in the whole scenario.

My upstairs neighbor lived in the house, I lived in the basement suite. Her place was like something out of a magazine with gardening efforts surrounding every part of the property and a big Christmas tree showing through the picture window. I lived in the basement suite. Outside, I had some plants growing in pots around the door, plus a stroller parked outside under the eaves. My place was tasteful, though obviously a basement suite.

The first knock came on the door to my place at around 8pm. I opened it to see two police officers and a lady in a suit standing there. I *knew* who they were and nearly peed my pants. When they asked if I was the my upstairs neighbor, I cheerfully pointed to the main front door, breathed a sigh of relief, and went back to gluing teeny cedar shakes on the dollhouse.

The entire removal took about four hours. It was no small deal and involved three police cars and another regular car containing two more walking suits doing god-knows-what. Each time a new car pulled up, the police officers would knock on my door first. In other words, they assumed that it had to be the mother in the basement suite who was having her children removed, not the nice homeowner living in the house. You'd think a quick listen to the police radio would clue them in to the fact that they should head to the upstairs, but instead, the assumption was that the lower income had to be a bad mother. That, in and of itself, alarms me.

When it comes to CPS or Children's Aid or Social Services or whatever, my suggestion is to go hide under the bed when you see them coming.

Charlotte

From: Lily (gildedlily@webtv.net)
Date: 2000/09/20

... Do they investigate every call? I had a friend and her hubby owed a guy money. He told the guy he didn't have it, the guy told him to watch his back, two days later CPS is at their door on an anounymous tip. How on earth could they separate the vindictive calls from legitimate ones? Well, I don't have any answers to why things happen, but I wish I could figure this one out. I think have your child taken away and not knowing who or how they were being cared for or if they were being abused would be worse than anything I can imagine. I would go crazy.

Lily

From: Suzanne Dallapè (karrde@smugglersalliance.org)
Date: 2000/09/20
"Kavvy" <sefamily@dtgnet.com> wrote in message >

The same goes for police. When it comes to any authority that is their *questioning you* for heavens sake - don't let them in and don't answer their questions. You don't have to (unless they have a warrant) and no matter what you say - they will find a way to use it against you.

I wonder if this ALWAYS is the case, though. When the cop came to our door to talk to me about my out-of-control child, he mentioned an incident which had happened a month earlier, which the BITCHY neighbor had partly-witnessed and tried to use as proof that we are not attentive parents. Basically, Rio got into a neighbor's pretty white decorative rocks and threw them on their driveway. The man of the house got mad initially, and I had Rio go over and clean it up. Then he apologized to the guy, and, no longer mad, he said, "No problem, don't worry about it." So I didn't. Apparently, the rock-throwing part and the man's anger were witnessed by Bitch, who used the incident later against me. So when the cop brought it up, in disbelief I had to say, "Huh? He cleaned the rocks up and apologized!" If I hadn't said that, they might still think Rio was just randomly throwing rocks in people's yards - I HAD to give the rest of the story to show how nice he was to take responsibility and apologize. I wonder if I should have just nodded and said, "Yassuh"?

- S.

From: Suzanne Dallapè (karrde@smugglersalliance.org)
Date: 2000/09/20
"Kanga C." <mailto:kangamaroo@aol.comWA.rez> wrote in

Do not ever let CPS into your house, ever. They do not have the right to come in without a search warrent, whatever they tell you.

No way. I already decided this! Our house is the messiest place you can imagine, and with our luck, they'd come the minute after I changed a diaper and set it on the living room floor while I answered the doorbell or something! The stuff you mentioned about dirty dishes and laundry - well, we'd be guilty in those areas. (And Rio even occasionally opts to sleep on a blanket on the floor - boom, inadequate sleeping arrangements!) No way would I let anyone in my house, especially someone who is supposedly investigating my parenting skills. Jerry says, "Nobody can take your kids away from you for bad housecleaning," but I still wouldn't let anyone see my house. Hell, even when it IS clean, we have no furniture - only bookcases and stereo equipment - so it still looks suspiciously weird.

- S.

From: Emily Roysdon (emily@artoo.net.remove)
Date: 2000/09/20

Snoopy Doggy Dog wrote:

I found that, and while I try to be mild mannered, I had to get a little nasty with them. Upon my accusations, I went after THEM before they could come after ME. I went in and DEMANDED to speak with someone and refused to leave until they went through with it.

I think this is a good approach. It shows that you are taking things seriously. Sad that it even has to be that way.

They said that they had to follow up on leads because the one who reported me was a "respectable member of the community." That was funny. I told them that those false allegations lost that woman her credibility but that fell on deaf ears. She CLAIMED that they had no information on me other than my first name. I don't fully believe that.

Interesting. I would think they would need more info than that to make a claim, and I wonder just how they were able to respect the confidentiality of the child, which is how they always defend their silence when such cases come under media scrutiny, while giving you details about the person who reported you.

However, it is true I was never contacted directly by them. My wife tells me that the mothering group she goes to (women only) only has her first name and because of what happened before will not offer any more identifying factors - which is where I went wrong. I had been too "open" with information and it was used against me.

Isn't that sad? It's occurred to me in all this that those of us with very revealing webpages or active newsgroup posting might be risking investigation. I don't have a lot about my parenting style on my page, but my posts here along with some of my activities in the AP community could be used against me. I'm still of the mindset that I'm not guilty of anything so I'm not going to act as though I am, ... My heart hurts for the parents whose home has been emptied of all three of their children, and their parenting choices made a mockery of by an all-powerful judge. ...

From: Kanga C. (kangamaroo@aol.comWA.rez.)
Date: 2000/09/21

Jerry says, "Nobody can take your kids away from you for bad housecleaning," but I still wouldn't let anyone see my house.

This is the problem. CPS can, does, and has. Yes, there are children in horrible situations who need to be removed immediately. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the utter lack of accountability where CPS is concerned. They don't have to be consistant, they don't have to prove anything the same way a police officer has to approve it. I live in Washington State. Anybody familiar with the Wenatchee Child Sex Ring witchhunts will understand why if CPS ever came to my door, I'd smile, show them the children through the screen, all the while making plans to get out of town.

Until there are better rules of accountability and standards that apply to all CPS workers, children will keep dying in the care of evil parents and good parents will be at risk of losing their kids - because too many CPS workers don't know the difference. One parent abusing her child is one too many, no argument here. But one CPS worker legally kidnapping children because she doesn't like their parent's religion, housekeeping style, weight, or lifestyle is _also_ one two many, and made doubly frightening because it _is_ sanctioned by law.

I think I'd tend to take Sean's advice here and see what happens. Since the initial cop's visit was over two weeks ago, I have a feeling he was sic'ed on us as a scare tactic.

A visit from a cop is different. He is bound by checks and balances and he does have some accountability. He also has some training in taking evidence and he knows that you have legal rights. I wouldn't worry about that too much, either. ...

Blessings,
Kanga

From: Kanga C. (kangamaroo@aol.comWA.rez)
Date: 2000/09/21

I don't think we would have problems concerning the home schooling, our area has so many homeschooling parents, I doubt they would have the facility to hold all those kids they took! We're in Amish country :)

The person most likely to hotline you for hsing is a disgruntled relative. And the problem is that they don't usually say they're calling because you hs, they make up some other accusation - not enough food, dirty house, neglect, you make the child do too many chores, you let the child run wild, etc.

The problem with CPS is that none of us are truly safe. Christians are actually at greater risk, because somebody somewhere thought it would be a great idea to include strong religious beliefs as one of the top 'at risk' categories for being an abuser. So is being overweight, btw. You are not innocent until proven guilty with CPS, especially if you're fat, a Christian, a child abuse survivor, and/or a homeschooler.

Do they investigate every call?

They're supposed to. I don't know if they do, and if they don't, I certainly couldn't blame them. I know they have huge case files and little enough time to give to the cases that _do_ need their attention.

How on earth could they separate the vindictive calls from legitimate ones?

Clearly, they can't, and this problem is exacerbated by the fact that most of them really don't believe there is such a thing as a healthy, happy, loving family. Which is why one of the best ways to solve the problem would be to stop the anonymous calls, or at least rate them at the bottom of the priority list.

I can see why CPS might need to protect the caller from the person being reported, but CPS should ask for name, address, phone number and other details of these accusers for their own records. If you get five hotline calls against you, that counts as five separate reports. But if CPS collected basic information, they would know if all five came from the same person, and if that person just happened to be your ex-mother-in-law, they could give it the weight it merited.

That still ouldn't protect everybody - a case reported in the homeschooling world recently is a scary example. The family were hotlined by a mentally ill family member against whom they'd gotten a restraining order. While the social worker was _in_ the house, frightening the children to death by asking them horribly personal questions, refusing to let their parents near them in spite fo the children's cries for them, the family member called and left a message on the machine, gloating over what he'd done.

The caseworker _still_ wrote them up, mainly for their religious beliefs (Seventh Day Adventists). The family sued and won, but the children still have nightmares.

I think have your child taken away and not knowing who or how they were being cared for or if they were being abused would be worse than anything I can imagine. I would go crazy.

Every mother feels the same way, but do you realize that many social workers would view this as a mark against you? "Overly emotional, unstable," perhaps even smothering.

I read a very enlightening article once by a CPS worker who became a mother _after_ years on the job. She said it changed her whole perspective, but she found it impossible to convince her colleagues.

Formerly, when she saw a mother threatened with losing her child fall apart, she considered her emotionally unstable and unfit to parent. When a woman instead remained calm and unemotional about it, she considered her together, stable, and well-balanced. Now that she was a mother, she realized she had been as wrong as it was possible to be - the emotional mothers were the ones who were connected with their children and those who remained calm at the threat of losing them were seriously flawed parents. Yet she'd been favoring them in her reports.

A disproportionate number of abused children grow up to become social workers.

They want to save the children that are suffering like they were. This is noble, but it's a problem. They are convinced that they all need saving. The develop a savior mentality, and they forget that their family was not the standard. They have no basis for recognizing normalcy.

What kind of person thinks there's something wrong with crying when somebody threatens to take your child? A CPS kind of person. It gives me cold chills to think of all the children damaged by the people supposed to serve them, both their parents, and those who do it under the legal protection and auspices of the 'child _protection_ services.

Blessings,
Kanga

From: sunnny gal (tostenrude@yahoo.com)
Date: 2000/09/21

I also live in Washington State. Only six years ago my grandmother decided to report my parents to CPS because they cut off all contact with her - she was the abusive one - I know, I witnessed what she did to my sister and lived through 18 years of her emotional and mental abuse towards me. I never told my parents because she was multi-faceted. She could also be a wonderful loving person, all the while telling me how rotten my mother was.

Anyways, two years earlier they cut off all contact because she physically abused my sister who was six at the time. She got ticked because at her mother's funeral my parents and her sister and brother-in-law refused to allow her to have any contact with us. We were put into the car and driven away by my uncle while my aunt and parents dealt with her.

Two days later, CPS pulled my brother and sister out of school and took them from the family. This was two weeks before Christmas. The report that she had helped to fill out was so filled with lies that it was disgusting. She included pictures that she had taken when she banged my sisters head against the floor multiple times-the pictures were of the resulting bruises. I was a witness to the incident. She also cited me as being abusive.

Fortunately, my parents never even spanked any of us, let alone abuse us. My mother was a survivor of severe abuse and she vowed never to use physical force on her children.

It still took 6 weeks before my brother and sister were returned to my parents. Now, I live in dread that she will find out my married name and come after my little one. She has already made the threat. She still doesn't know where I live, but it's only a matter of time and I know that she can make my life a living hell as well.